@benroyce @ReggieHere @jawarajabbi I suppose we in the UK tend to think that the two houses in the US are roughly equivalent to the houses of commons (elected members of parliament) and Lords (unelected permanent appointees of different governments). But the process of selection is very different. We don’t have primaries and each political party has its own method of choosing representatives.
@seb321 @ReggieHere @jawarajabbi
and in the usa it's just all or nothing
the problem is we have an ancient antiquated crude form of democracy, and we never adjusted
more modern forms of democracy like in the uk: it's simply more sophisticated, more robust, better thought out forms of democracy
you drifted away from monarchy. we drift towards it
which is all very ironic considering the drama when we split from the uk, and our rhetoric at the time
Edited 20d ago
@jawarajabbi @ReggieHere @benroyce Neither system was implemented with fairness in mind though. They were both imposed by a wealthy elite to ensure they kept power to themselves while giving just enough of a say to the masses to stop them revolting. Only reluctantly did they widen suffrage to include first non-aristocratic men and eventually women. I assume the same sort of process happened in the US? No votes for slaves I imagine?
@seb321 @jawarajabbi @ReggieHere
oh yeah absolutely
and all we can do is further agitate for even more improvements to our flawed democracies
in the usa ranked choice voting is gradually working its way in here and there
this is exciting because with ranked choice people can vote their conscience free and clear. third parties will become stable. and no more dreary dreary strategy with their vote that turns so many people off from voting
Edited 20d ago
This exactly. Prior to the C20, the UK didn't have a left-wing party because the liberals and conservatives were both part of the aristocracy.
It's arguable that the US still lacks a left-wing party, and the presence of democratic socialists like Mamdini in the US Democrats is the exact parallel of socialists in the UK Liberal Party at the beginning of the twentieth century.
@ReggieHere @seb321 @jawarajabbi @benroyce
Well if that's the case, take note. If you spend a century being the left wing "working man's" party then start warmongering and leaning further right to try and prevent the fascists from voting for the nazis, you will fail and probably (hopefully) destroy yourselves.
@gareth @ReggieHere @seb321 @jawarajabbi
i see the welsh flag, i see the invective, time for this american to nope out, seeing as i ain't got no dog in this fight
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I don't think it's a nationalist point. Labour under Blair reverted to liberalism and left-wingers across the UK were stranded without a party to vote for.
Scotland replaced Labour with the SNP and Wales is looking likely to do similar with Plaid at the next election. English left-wingers have mostly dropped Labour in favour of the Greens or YP.
@ReggieHere @gareth @seb321 @jawarajabbi
oh yeah, sorry. i mean i saw the welsh flag as in this is a british isles thing now, not as in this is a welsh independence thing now. and me in western new york i should keep my mouth shut
Edited 20d ago
Would State independence movements be a way forward for progressives in the States?
@ReggieHere @gareth @seb321 @jawarajabbi
well had a wee little war over that
such moves are mostly championed by far right wackjobs. and funded by shady money that has the kremlin at its root
same with alberta in canada, with the added "bonus" that some of that money there is from USA MAGA
it's like brexit: it just makes putin smile and weakens his enemies, it's not a valid approach
Yes, democracy as a vehicle for regime change is an under-scrutinised political strategy.
That said, smaller national electorates in the UK have successfully ousted the mainstream Westminster parties....hence the question about the likes of New York State.
@ReggieHere @gareth @seb321 @jawarajabbi
well there's always this interplay between "states rights" and the feds
the right consistently whines about it
then they get in power and squash left leaning states rights
predictable hypocrisy
i can definitely see more assertion of the primacy of state govt over federal govt from the left if we don't improve
Edited 20d ago
Interesting, The left-wing of the Democrats certainly seems to be gaining momentum.
@ReggieHere @benroyce @jawarajabbi and there are pivotal moments. As mentioned above, the rise of the Labour Party in the early 20th century was enabled by voting reform in the late 19th century. Still just men, but more ordinary men. You have to hope that the shock of what Trump has been able to do will lead to further voting reform in the US.